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    This is Russ Elrod here from Alabama. 

    Sorry I missed you in KY this past week.  I spent most the week hunting in Iowa, and only arrive in Kentucky for the weekend. 


    Attached is a photo of my bow kill in Iowa.  I hunted the entire time from my Quido’s Web.  The stand performed great.  I spend several 12 hour days in the stand and was very comfortable every day.

    The buck scored approximately 145.  I have other photos if you’d like them for your website, etc.

    Thank You,

    Russ Elrod



    Here is my testimonial on the Web I purchased from you in 2011.  Enjoy
    What originally drew me to Guido's Web was a solution for hunting with my young and growing children.  The ability to ascend a tree with them into a prehung platform while I am securely attached to the tree is a huge advantage.  This allows me to hunt any single tree stand setup with them.  Once they are securely harnessed into the tree platform I can add a few foot leverage points, hang my main tether and am hunting.  The Web also allows me to be right there with them close.  I can go right or left, whispering and coaching them during the outing giving us an awesome experience.
    The other main reason I purchased the web was to hunt hot sign when it is hot.  Ever find yourself walking to a treestand and come across an area that is just tore up; acorns dropping, hot scrapes, new food source, etc.  If you are wearing the web and carrying some tree pegs or climbing sticks you can be set up in a matter of minutes. 
    Stealth.Nothing is quieter and more comfortable than Guido's Web. Take the time to make the necessary adjustments in the tree, and once you find that 'SWEET SPOT' you are set for hours
    The photos included are of a great deer I was fortunate to take in October of 2012.  My brother and I wanted to intensely cover a particular travel corridor on an evening hunt.  While he climbed into an existing stand, I went just 60 yards to the East, giving us solid coverage of approximately a 100 yard wide swath.  We were close to a bedding area so I quietly ascended the tree with screw ins and topped it off with a climbing stick with a double top step.  I added a few steps around the perimeter of the tree and was set.  I rattled about every 45 minutes for short bursts and waited.  About 10 minutes before legal shooting this buck showed up, thrashed a tree and walked to within 10 yards.  I pivoted around the tree maintaining optimum archery form and made the shot.  He went 20 yards. 
    I would recommend the Web to anyone who is willing to try new things with regards to techniques and mobile locations and wants to be comfortable doing it.
    Thank You,
    In Good Faith,
    Chad Statz






    Mr. Butch,

    I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy hunting out of the Guido's Web. Since I got it last December, my climber has be collecting spider webs. I have included a photo of one of the two that I have killed out of the web so far this year. I plan to add several more to the talley before the end of the season.

    By the way, I would love to be considered for field testing when you do get ready to launch the Black Widow.  I believe it will be just the ticket for the early season hunts here in Mississippi.

    Thanks,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Brad Martin


    Dear Butch,

    I just wanted to thank you for making an awesome hunting product. This was my first year using the Web and after a month and one half of field testing I have come to the conclusion that the Tree Web is THE complete hunting system, combining stealth, comfort and mobility. I have enclosed a couple of pictures of what can happen when all of those features come together. The Tree Web is a quality piece of hunting gear. I am very pleased with my purchase.

    Brian Hammann
    Muscatine, Iowa

    First of all let me tell you how brilliant of an idea this is. All I can say is thank you and share my story.

    Being from Michigan and having several small properties to hunt I never really like to hunt the same tree too much and am sick of dirtbags stealing my stands. So when I started researching slings and came across the web it got me very excited. None the less I had the privilage of going to Missouri this bow season and was going to be the first time I got to swing from guido. I did hook up to a tree in the front yard and get familiarized a bit the day before we left Nov 4th 2011. We arrived in MO on saturday the 6th and for the first 5 days I hunted a lock on stand and was seeing nice bucks everyday and had no reason to move (we set up several stands on different properties mainly because I didnt know if I would like it and my friend had never even heard of guidos web and sort of laughed at me at first.) Although this spot was hot for a few days it cooled off and it was time for me to bust out the web. My friend hunts these properties every year and has several trees that are already pegged but no stand. We had kicked a tresspasser off on saturday and besides that no one has been on this land since last year. So thursday morning I pack my gear planning for an all day hunt. Snuck out to a tree I had never climbed in the dark at about 5.30 easilly zipped up the tree after securring guido to my legs and got buckled in. Before I could pull my bow and pack from the ground I already had 2 shooters and 3 does within 15 yds. This thing is dead quiet. Slowly pulled my gear up as quickly as possible and wacthed these 2 big bucks vanish into the crp trailing the does. As the sun came up I watched deer start filtering from the cutt beans across the street and head straight to me as my friend said they would. 3 does and a small buck chasing close behind, they all came within 30 yards and crept by and into their beds. About 5 minutes later this buck trailed the does scent and started heading to me on a rope. He stopped right under my tree at 3 yards and had no idea I was there. Guidos web gave me the perfect balance pushing my legs away from tree and brings me into perfect shooting position.This deer had no chance and I let the bowtech drop the bomb on him. Perfect heart shot only got to hunt for about 45 minutes but was one of the best hunts of my life. This is the first of many more bucks to come from guido.

    Love my web Aaron Kirk Ortonville MI


    Dear Butch and Linda,

    I am writing this letter to say Thank You for the most comfortable deer hunting season ever! I have included a pic of a young buck that I took from your stand this past deer season. I can honestly say I was able to harvest this deer strictly as a result from the comfort and the stealth of your stand. The day I shot this deer I was up in my stand before sunrise and shot him at around 1:00 pm. There is no way I would have been able to post any where near that long with my old climber stand. Secondly, the buck responded aggressively to a rattle and came running quickly into shooting range, only problem was I had my back to him. Once he stopped snorting and settled down a little bit I was able to silently maneuvre into a comfortable shooting stance leaning backwards and took him with a clean heart shot.

    I have to say that the only thing that could be more comfortable than a Guido's web would be if I could somehow get my Lazy boy recliner into a tree, and even then I wouldn't be so sure. Thanks again for a wonderful product and you can definitely expect a few more orders from Canada as all my hunting buddies were more than impressed.

    Best Regards,
    Remo Pezzente
    Toronto, Canada
    January 2011


    My name is Nick Roy and I just ordered a web from you to take on a self guided bear hunt with a buddy. We couldn't take conventional tree stands due to weight and room restrictions. I was able to take Guido's web.

    I shot a black bear from it and it preformed beautifully! The bear never new I was there and I was able to move into shooting position noislessly while he was walking in. I love the thing!

    here are a few pics. Maybe you can use them to promote your product. It deserves it.

    I forgot to mention that the hunt was in the interior of Alaska.


    Nick Roy


    Nick bagged this 6'2" 200lb black bear on June 3, 2010 at 11:30 pm in Alaska.  Sitting in Guido's Web he made a 12 yard shot using a Wes Wallace recurve, a 2117 legacy arrow and 190 grn grizzly broadhead.

    Hi Butch!

    You probably don't remember me, but I purchased a web for my boyfriend Jason last Christmas. We were in Michigan at the time, with plans to move to Iowa. We were truck drivers then, also. Hopefully that might ring a bell. I spoke with you a couple times on the phone as well.

    Anyway, when we spoke you asked me to let you know if/when Jason got a deer with your web, and boy did he!! We bought a house in Iowa just after Christmas, and we are now out of the truck (thank God!).

    The second day Jason went out hunting, he whacked this monster using your web. He absolutely loves it! He says that it is very comfortable, and loves the fact that he is totally portable. He has a lot of spots that he has cleared out in various parts of Iowa and Missouri, and having the web makes it so much easier than lugging around a heavy tree stand. He worked very hard during the summer scouting and clearing shooting lanes, and his hard work totally paid off!

    Jason had seen this particular deer a few times during the summer and when he was in velvet. He got him just before dark, and came and got me to help get it back to the car. You should have seen us. You would have laughed your head off. I had never done anything like that before, and it was absolutely thrilling! He hadn't tracked it yet, so when we got back to it, we had to track it in the dark. He told me that he thought it was a 120-130, and when we got to it and he pulled his head up, both of our jaws hit the dirt. After he gutted it, it still weighed over 200 pounds. The car was over 400 yards from where we were, and we could only drag it about a quarter of the way. Fortunately our next door neighbor was home and he and Jason took his truck back out there and got it.

    When we got home and measured it, it wound up being a 170-3/4!!!! Woo hoo!!!! Here's one to add to your hall of fame!

    Thanks again!
    Traci Hardesty

    I have had, and been using the "Guido's web" off and on for a few years now. I also have a number of conventional stands hung up in a number of places that I also use on a regular basis. This past fall I had a friend coming down to hunt for a few days and I was going to be doing the filming. The place in question already had a conventional stand in place so I went in and set up a second stand the day before the hunt.
    The next morning seen both of us up in our stands, it was turning out to be an uneventful day, so we decided to call it a morning, my partner climbed down from his stand and I removed my safety harness and was getting ready to come down when my stand broke. There I was on a 19' freefall. Too make a long story short, I fractured 3 vertebrae, broke my right heal and fractured my right wrist, along with a pile of other stuff.
    Not bad for the first day of the deer hunt...... here it is 5 months later and I am just now able to draw back my bow again, the doctor says it will be well over a year before my back is feeling the way I think it should be. I'm concerned that I will not be able to sit on a conventional stand again due to discomfort, but I can honestly say I have since sat in the Web and the back support is ideal for me, not to mention that you are safely tethered from the ground up. This alone is a selling feature that I don't think many other stands can lay claim too.

    Rick Marchand and his party took this bull moose during a successful hunt in Canada on 9/28/06

     moose with stand 35

    -- Rick Marchand
    Executive Producer/Owner

    Mr. Palasini,
    Here is a pic of the first deer that I shot out of my new stand, it happens to be my best buck to date with my bow. This is a public land deer that was shot at 1:10 p.m. and I had been on stand since before daylight. He is a 7 pt. with a 16 3/4in. spread and weighed 150lbs field dressed. I love my stand and I look forward to many more hunts out of it.
    Andy Beasley
    Guntersville, AL

    Hello Butch
    I can sit in complete comfort for as long as needed in this stand. Unlike any lock-on, climber or ladder I've ever used. I also like the ultra light weight, and being able to wear it wherever I need to hunt. Strength is built into every part of it. Extremely quiet, and east to set up.
    Thanks for a great product.
    Gus Pieralisi Jr

    Gus took this deer with a bow in Grenada County MS on December 12, 2007. P & Y scored 130 7/8.

    I hunted three stands that were set by the land owner without success. Then I set up on a tree line with Guido's Web at 2:30PM. Took 15 minutes to set up, including steps. At 5:00PM I killed this deer. This was my first Kansas hunt but not my first time in Guido's Web and it definetely will NOT be the last time I hunt in it.


    Wayne took this 10 point in Kansas on November 29, 2007.  It scored 136.


    Thanks for making such a great product. Hunted 13 days in a row before getting it done on the last morning. I think in the last 7 days of the hunt I set up in 12 different trees. Most of the sets were done in the dark. There is no way I could have had that much mobility and stealth and I don’t think I have found a straight tree in Kansas yet. Thanks again for having hands down the most innovative deer stand on the market to date.
    John Reed

    John took this deer with a bow in Kansas in November 2007.  The deer scored 158.

    Last September my wife Holly and I experienced the Black bear hunt of a lifetime at Arrowhead Wilderness Lodge (phone# 218-330-1353) in Northern Minnesota. We were able to enjoy this hunt together in large part due to your terrific tree stand Guido’s Web. My wife, equipped with a good book and her camera, was situated in a 15 foot ladder stand and I just above her in my "Web". The web stand allowed me to sit comfortably, quietly and relatively motionless for hours at a time. This is something I have not been able to do from a conventional treestand due to a back injury I sustained several years ago. On day 5 of our hunt, after already passing on one bear because it was not large enough, I shot this 240 pound bruin at just 15 yards. I would recommend Arrowhead Wilderness Lodge to anyone interested in a high quality Black bear hunt and Guido’s Web to anyone that wants to be able to sit comfortably, quietly and relatively motionless for hours on end until that shot of a lifetime materializes.

    Bo Sloan

    Bo took this 240lb black bear in Northern Minnesota in September, 2006.


    your stand is excellently thought out and well constructed. I especially like the redundant safety feature of the double belt hookup. Made me feel more secure and the comfort level when in the seated position has no equal. (I know this, as I’ve used about 15 different brands of stands and built some of my own design and construction) Also great stand aside, YOUR customer service is unbelievable. ( I’m sure you talk to a lot of people and may not remember but I’m the guy that ordered 2 days before Christmas and received the day after Christmas. You called me on the 27th as well, just to make sure I got it and see if I had any questions, we talked for about 20 minutes.) When I asked how you possibly got it to me so quickly, You told me that you drove 15 miles to a place that takes packages 24 hours and that’s how it got it so fast. I appreciate you and your service especially since we are in the middle of the (deer) season when everyday counts.

    Thanks again and I appreciate you.

    Troy T. Rizan
    Slidell, Louisiana

    Your stand worked like a dream. I have been able to hunt all the places that I really needed to be hunting all along but could not due to the tree being too small, not straight enough, or not tall enough. You have put all the trees in the right place. I can pack in my stand, gear, and decoy all at once and stay all day (12 hrs) and not be uncomfortable and fatigued. Amazing, very steady to shoot from, safe and easy to set up, and quiet. Already have several people ready to buy one. They all let me be the test dummy but now they see the light.

    I was hunting just 8ft off the ground when he came in to a grunt call. if anyone needs a reference tell them to give me a call, # posted below.

    Thank's again,

    John Reed
    South Carolina
    November 25, 2006


    I placed an order with you on 10/29/06 for a lower lumbar support belt to be added to my stand.  Thank you for your call to inform me that the lumbar belt was not an add on accessory and that it had to be sewn to the stand.  I am returning my stand to get the lower lumbar belt sewn on. Thanks again for your timely call. Now that’s true customer service.

    I also want to commend you on designing the "perfect" deer stand for the hunter who Likes to move around a lot or has multiple properties to hunt. Just to let you know how comfortable the stand is to me, on the second morning that I hunted this year I was fortunate enough to harvest a fine eight point buck with my bow out of your stand. I climbed up to the top of a ladder stand I have had in the particular area for about 3 years and just fastened your stand above it and used the seat of the ladder stand to rest my feet on. That’s all you hear about these days is how comfortable a mesh seat is. Well that comfortable mesh seat compared to your stand will only be touching my feet from now on.

    I have shown your stand to many of my friends and their first question is always the same. "How can you trust that strap to hold you up in the tree?" My answer or I guess I should say question is always the same too. "You trust that safety harness strap to save your life when your metal stand breaks don’t you?"

    Thanks Again
    Todd Davis
    South Mississippi
    November 17, 2006

    Thank you for calling yesterday. I watched the video and then went outside and set the stand up....wow I have a (brand name deleted) climbing stand. I got up in my (brand name deleted) this morning and it was cold and wet...it actually slipped a bit while I was about 20 feet off the ground (the upper part slipped). I became uncomfortable and my legs were feeling slightly pinched. When I put it up the day before I told myself that I'd rather leave it strapped to the tree and have it ready in the morning than setting it up in the dark. It wore me completely out backpacking it into the woods and setting it up...and it's supposed to be one of the lighter and better climbers! I strapped my new Web stand around a tree in my backyard and became instantly familiar with my new Web stand....what comfort and convenience. I was sitting there moving about and just imagining my new possibilities with the portability and smart set-up of the Web stand. No more 20-25 lb. stands on my back...the dread of clanging those heavy, dangerous, metal stands has ended pretty much..I'm going to devote the rest of the NY hunting season to pushing my Guido's Web stand to the limits.

    Thanks again,
    Paul Nelsen
    New York
    November 1, 2006

    I received the X-Large-Tall Stand today. Thank-you again for your attention in the size mix-up. It was my fault for ordering the wrong size! Therefore it is only right that I pay the return shipping.

    You guys are a CLASS ACT and I genuinely appreciate your concern. It’s refreshing to deal with quality people / company etc, particularly in this day & age.

    Again, my sincere Thanks to you and your staff. It has been a pleasure.

    September 14, 2006

    I got home tonight about 11:00pm. I could not wait to open the goodies inside of the boxes that ups left me. Butch your tape answers all my questions. Your tapes were great. I have a new catch phrase for your stand, it goes like this; the only stand on the market that is a self contained 4 point safety harness, back pack, deer stand, that weighs 7.5 lbs. The stand that holds you to a tree like a spiders web and lets you climb trees like a cat squirrel to hunt deer!}. That quote you can use, because it tells all about your product and the benifits it has to offer to the hunter. You have a sure winner here. I look forward to meeting you and helping you get your product out to the hunters. It is the deer stand that I have been searching for 20 years. I love it.

    James Hutch
    July 1, 2006

    Hey Butch,

    My name is John Blumberg and I'm from Michigan. I would like to share a story with your readers.

    one day my daughter and I were looking through a hunting magazine and came across this ad Guidos Web Mobile Harness stand total weight 7.5 lbs. So she looked at me and said Dad you dont need it, you allready have too many stands! Well thats the truth of the matter, for years I've tried almost every ladder stand, hang on stand, several climbing stands. But nothing is as lightweight, comfortable and easy to use as this one! Bar none there's not another one on the market like it. I can't wait until Hunting season.

    Thanks Butch.

    John Blumberg.
    March 29, 2006


    The first time I've seen you was at the Cajun Dome in Lafayette, LA, during the outdoor show.

    My curiosity kept drawing me back to your booth. You and I got to talking about your stand and I was able to try it on. After fifteen minutes of sitting in the Guido's web, I have to say I was sold on it. My back had been hurting me from being on my feet for three hours and the pressure was gone after sitting in the web. I had back surgery about five years ago and for something to ease the pressure that quick, did impress me highly. I'm sorry to say that I haven't made a kill out of it yet, but I have used the Guido's web this hunting season. It's very comfortable, quiet and very easy to adjust while in position and to maneuver.

    Again, with someone who has had surgery it is very easy to maneuver through the woods that I could not do with other stands being too heavy and bulky. They would just wear my body down to hump these other products plus gun, bow or anything else.

    Thanks again!
    Lynn Delcambre
    New Iberia, LA
    St. Michael's Signs
    22 March 2006

    I am a hunter who likes to be on the move. It is easier to hunt trophy white tailed deer when the pressure gets put on them with Guido’s Web. I also happen to be a Chiropractic Physician and am very self conscious of spine support and proper sitting positions. I do believe Butch Palasini has perfected the proper sitting position with optimum lumbar support with this stand. The strap placements and firm seat give it the strength it needs to hold a hunter in a correct position to minimize back and neck fatigue, and the best thing is each stand can be adjusted to fit exactly the way you want with the specific support you desire. The best thing about this is, it allows a hunter to stay comfortable for longer periods of time allowing you to stay longer; therefore increasing your odds of getting the game you are after. Another nice feature is the standing option that is possible with only minimal effort and movement that still gives you the correct spinal support. This stand is definitely the most comfortable and mobile stand I have ever used. If you are interested in mobility, un-paralleled comfort, and proper spine support, you need to check this product out. Thank you for such a innovative stand idea for Guido’s Web will truly be the standard of future hunting stands.

    Dr. B. Tripp Henderson D.C., C.S.C.S.

    Doctor of Chiropractic; Certified Strength & Conditioning Specialist
    Vice-President MCA(Mississippi Chiropractic Association)
    Henderson Chiropractic & Sports Rehab P.C., Oxford, MS

    Nice 10 point 16" wide on 12/2/05 at Cedar Grove Hunting Club MS 


     Buck 10 55 tripp

    I'm a deep woods thick cover kind of hunter. Mostly, I favor, and hunt, Pennsylvania's "big woods" and swamps. I favor these a lot over the farms & meadows my son and son-in-law hunt quite a bit. Flat and open terrain is nice but I seldom roam it.

    Now, I carry your "Web" on my back and about 7 pounds of Jim's "Stepps". In short, I at last have a small compact "climbing" tree stand that is truly under 15 pounds (complete) that allows me to get my feet about 15 feet above the ground in open or heavy thick cover. I can "skinny" this load down another 2 to 3 pounds by packing simple inexpensive strap-on steps of good quality. For a lot of years, and I do mean years+, I've been mentioning to just about every maker of climbing tree stands I've had the chance to to "wake up" and lighten the load. Instead, what I've seen over the years are annual new arrivals of heavier and heavier "portable climbing" stands showing up each succeeding year. Dumb! .............. at least to Tom.

    I don't understand why a hunter, unless he always climbs the same tree, close to the car, has tolerance for weight and bulk?

    Guido's Web is light, beautifully compact, soft and comfy, safe and secure, mobile as all get out and busts through the woods and swamps with a lot fewer snags & grabs than even my favorite metal climber (made by another Tom). Now, if only someone will just make super lightweight climbing steps (of the type that do not screw into the tree), I'll be an even more happy wanderer. I am quite happy, and satisfied, with how my Guido's Web lets me constantly reposition my body and line of sight along about a 270 degree arc around the tree just by doing no more than easily and very quietly move my feet as to "walk" around the tree on a few extra strap-on steps "up top"! Today's strap-ons seem pretty tough and secure (at least to and for me) and my "Web" is a true body harness fall arrestor for backup. Most folks seem to like the heavier and more bulky strap on ladder steps. Fine for them.

    Thanks for a great product and the also for the excellent and much appreciated customer service accorded me both before and after my purchase. Sorry to say it, but, I don't have a nice picture to send to you ...... this year's PA Black Bear was not quite big enough to shoot but the 185 pound 10 point whitetail sure was!


    Tom Huff
    Allentown PA
    6 March 2006

    I've hunted in many top brand treestands over the years, but in my Guido's Web I feel safer and it's #1 in comfort.

    Kansas Deer Nov 2010 using Guido's Web Tree Stand. Taken with bow and scored 172.

     Al Patrick  Kansas deer Nov 2010

    Al Patrick
    Danville, Arkansas

    My name is Willard Taylor and I hunt in the northwest corner of Alabama. In September of 2005 I went to the Sportsman Bonanza in Tupelo, MS. and met Butch Palasini. He introduced me to the Guido's Web Tree-stand. I have to admit that at first I was a little skeptical of this tree-stand but during the 2005 deer season I hunted and used this stand and absolutely fell in love with it. I own several other tree-stands, but none of them compare to this one. This stand gives me the freedom to hunt in areas where I was unable to before. If you can put on a turkey vest then you can easily carry this tree-stand.

    Thanks Butch for introducing me to the Guido's Web Tree-stand. This is a picture of a nine point buck taken while using this great stand.

    Willard Taylor
    Feb 22, 2006

    This stand is the safest and most comfortable that I've used in my 27 years of deer hunting. The surprising feature to me is that it is rock solid for shooting gun or bow. This stand is a true winner.

    Barry Roberts
    North Carolina
    14 Feb 2006

    What is the number one hunting accident in Tennessee? It is falling from tree stands. Why? The question of why can be summed up in two words: denial and laziness. Denial—the mentality “It will not happen to me.” Laziness—putting the safety harness on “will take to much time” or “I’ll put it on once I get situated in the tree.” If a hunter climbs a tree to hunt it is a matter of when, not if, a fall occurs. Will you be protected? The web harness stand offered by Guido’s Outdoors is an absolute marvel. You wear it as a pack. When you get to the selected tree, drop the seat, snap two buckles, attach tether and climb the tree by your chosen method. Simple, Fast, Safe, Comfortable.

    Nathan Ripley
    State Wildlife Officer
    Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency
    11 Feb 2006

    This is got to be the lightest, quietest, most comfortable, easy to use stand that I have ever used in the 30+ years of my hunting. It improves shooting accuracy and the freedom to move around in the stand without fear of falling off the platform, because you are in a harness instead. This stand is unreal!!! Seeing is not always believing, till you sit in this stand and try it out. Then you will believe!! This should have been the first stand I bought [ where have you been] not the last one!!! KEEP IT UP!!

    24 Jan 2006



    Jason took this buck with a bow just at daylight in Kansas in November 2008. It scored 213 gross.


    Kyle's Deer 2007

    Kyle killed this deer 10/17/07 in South Mississippi. P&Y score 154.

    Buck 13 50 john 

    John got this 8 point 23" wide buck on 11/22/05 at a private club in MS


     Buck 7


    Mark got this 9 point 18-1/2" wide on 12/1/05 at Hunting Point MS


     Buck 1


    Doug got this 8 point 18-1/2" wide on 12/19/04 at Leroy Percy Park MS


     Buck 2


    John killed this 8 point 18-3/4" wide on 12/5/04 at a private club LA

     Buck 3

    Duke and son Anthony got two nice 8 pointers 18" & 19" wide on 1/1/03 at Gilknockie Hunting Club MS

     Buck 4

    Mike got this 8 point 17-1/2" wide on 12/3/01 at Yazoo Wildlife Refuse MS


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